John Edwards and community organizing
Discussion list for COMM-ORG
colist at comm-org.wisc.edu
Sat Oct 20 12:36:17 CDT 2007
[ed: thanks to Andy for continuing the discussion. To pick up on a
point he raises, what would a political campaign look like if it were
built on community organizing principles?]
From: "David Chavis" <DChavis at capablecommunity.com>
And to hopefully continue this positively and without getting into who
to vote for. It seems to me that much of what people see in Obama and
Clinton is making history by who they are and not clearly what they
would do. As Andy wisely writes, you can never tell where a social
movement will come from, but it is particularly difficult to see it here
in this race. Obama's campaign most of all bewilders me. What about his
campaign, policies, messaging, etc. reflects his community organizer
background? His main issue and message is, simply stated, that we
should all get along and make this country better. I won't debate that,
but it not the stuff that historically characterize social movements or
community organizing. The practically of his approach, frankly is
dubious to me because if he is true to roots on the issues, there are
organized money and people who will fight him. Is his message even
antithetical to organizing and social movements (i.e. the anti-conflict
message and the focus on an individual personality over the collective
and the issues)?
I can't avoid one commentary, sorry. What disappoints me the most is
that he is capitalizing on the fear of/great discomfort with conflict.
This is well documented and research among the middle class, especially
under 35 age group, not the frustration and anger of the disadvantaged.
This is the same strategy that brought in Gov Schwarzenegger. I am not
comparing their politics or virtues, just message. It would be a great
day for America if Obama was President, but whether he is all everyone
likes to think he is, is my question.
David
Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
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> [ed: thanks to Andy for continuing the discussion.]
>
> From: "Andrew Mott" <andymott at communitylearningproject.org>
>
> These are such familiar issues -- national electoral or legislative work vs
> local organizing, longterm investment in social movement building or quick
> fix. I must say that -- after more than 40 years of working for community
> and social change in the US -- I have concluded that there is no one right
> answer.
>
> My personal bedrock commitment is to long-term organizing and doing
> everything possible to stimulate a mass movement on issues of poverty, race
> and power in the US or to be ready to support one which may emerge in an
> entirely unexpected way (as do most mass movements).
>
> However, when given the chance to elect a former community organizer and
> civil rights lawyer who is brilliant and charismatic, can appeal across
> divisive lines, and appears to have what our country needs most -- the
> ability to engage and educate people and perhaps fundamentally change public
> opinion -- I am for doing everything possible to get him elected.
>
> Obama offers three other absolutely unique and critical assets --
> * His family background is truly international -- Asian as well as
> African and American -- and includes Moslems as well as Christians. That's
> an incredible asset at this moment in US history.
> * Electing an African-American President would be such a breakthrough
> for this country, directly addressing our greatest divide and providing
> great inspiration for young Black men whose crisis is almost genocidal,
> immigrants facing discrimination and great hardship, and all the rest of us
> who have struggled so hard to make progress on these issues and start a new
> chapter.
> * He opposed the war from the beginning with the kind of clarity and
> decisiveness we desperately need.
>
> He doesn't offer a quick fix, but we have seen before how much difference
> one person, especially a President, can make for good or for ill.
>
> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>
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>> [ed: thanks to Adam for continuing the conversation.]
>>
>> From: Adam Flint <flint at igc.org>
>>
>>
>> This is SO true, and not only in the U.S. Savvy movement leaders in the
>> groups I work with in Latin America are often torn by this trade off.
>> If they devote resources and organizing energy to elections, even of one
>> of their own, will it really acheive their goals more efficiently than
>> devoting those resources to movement building? Particularly since, once
>> in office, their candidates often are prisoners of systems and
>> structures that mute the influence of the movement or the electorate.
>>
>> I think here, where community and progressive organizing is weak and
>> without any effective national expression (beyond single issues) many
>> fool themselves into thinking that there will be some shorter-term 'bang
>> for the buck' by electoral organizing rather than the hard clog of
>> movement building. The religious right (RR) learned from their mistakes
>> in that regard with Nixon AND Reagan, either of whom really cared much
>> about their cores issues, and focused more on movement building until
>> they had a golden opportunity with GWB. Unlike all the others, he
>> appointed movement ideologs and loyalists throughout his cabinet and the
>> federal bureacracy, and siphoned millions to the organizations of the
>> religious right through his policy priorities. A good thing for them,
>> as by all accounts, including that of some of their most noted leaders,
>> the R. R. was on life support by 2000. They pretty much lost the
>> 'culture waes' (though in some parts of the U.S their rear guard actions
>> are pretty convincing, and its only through 'effective fundraising' and
>> their people in goverment that they continue to have a powerful effect
>> on our lives.
>>
>> Thanks for your preceptive intervention.
>>
>> -Adam Flint
>>
>> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>>
>>
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>>> [ed: thanks to Larry for continuing the discussion.]
>>>
>>> From: Larry Yates <lamaryates at igc.org>
>>>
>>> I would suggest that Mr. Floyd and "Professor Dreier" are looking at two
>>> different aspects of organizing reality. Or to put it differently (and
>>> it's really against my nature to say this) they are both right, and it's
>>> just a misunderstanding
>>>
>>> On the one hand, agreeding with Don Floyd, yes, we need to have
>>> organized money (and organized research and organized legal structures
>>> and organized technology) as well as organized people. Or to put it
>>> differently, organized people need to put their hands to whatever tools
>>> will help them do the job without distracting them from their goals. And
>>> money is certainly a key tool that we ignore or fail to use effectively
>>> at our peril.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, it seems to me Peter Dreier was just saying that the
>>> fundamental fact of organizing is organized people vs. organized money
>>> and privilege. Organized money and privilege tend to keep power
>>> relations as they are (or more so), and organized people tend (we hope)
>>> to make them more just and open.
>>>
>>> Perhaps some of the confusion comes from relating organizing and
>>> political campaigns. To what real degree are Obama, Edwards, Kucinich or
>>> Ron Paul, (selecting perhaps the most ideologically motivating
>>> candidates( and those working with them, organizing? It seems to me that
>>> 90% of what they do is focussed on building a short-term effort totally
>>> dependent on the good behavior of one person, on influencing how the
>>> media covers them, and on the accumulation and expenditure of lots of
>>> money that is not accountable to any collective organized body.
>>>
>>> I guess I question whether the success or failure of major electoral
>>> campaigns is all that dependent on anything we can really call
>>> organizing, except at the last stage with GOTV (Get Out the Vote) work.
>>> I also don't see campaigns as having any real interest in building any
>>> lasting resources, which it seems to me is fundamental to organizing.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to moralize. Just as we have to deal with money to
>>> organize, we, at least as individuals, have to deal in one way or
>>> another with political campaigns in order to have some influence over
>>> our elected officials. I prefer elections to monarchy. But I think we
>>> get rather easily confused between organizing and political campaigns,
>>> and that there may be less overlap between the two than we tend to think.
>>>
>>> Larry Yates
>>> VOP Valley Organizer
>>> P.O. Box 245
>>> Maurertown VA 22644
>>> 540 436 3432
>>> llyates at shentel.net
>>> www.virginia-organizing.org
>>> Personal website: http://www.user.shentel.net/llyates/
>>>
>>>
>>> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>>
>>>> [ed: Thanks to Don for raising these issues. I would like to point us
>>>> to the issues he raises for community organizing, and try to avoid
>>>> having a candidate debate. Is the rule both organized people and
>>>> organized money?]
>>>>
>>>> From: "Don Floyd" <dfloyddekalb at earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >From Dreier's piece: "...it seems that only Edwards has absorbed the
>>>> cardinal rule of organizing: it requires organized people to beat organized
>>>> money."
>>>>
>>>> Don't know where this "cardinal rule" comes from. When I was in the work,
>>>> the only "organizers" I knew who mouthed lines like that were the liberal
>>>> do-gooders, too afraid of power to build their own organized money. Real
>>>> organizers build BOTH organized people AND organized money.
>>>>
>>>> Edwards has always seemed like one of those former organizers--often rich,
>>>> liberal white kids who want to play at being organizers, but end up losing
>>>> and screwing the folks because they can't stand the tension of building
>>>> real power.
>>>>
>>>> Professor Dreier ignores the fact that Obama is the only trained and
>>>> experienced community organizer in the field, and that he and his team are
>>>> organizing both people and money very well, much better than Edwards.
>>>>
>>>> Don Floyd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>> "Peter Dreier" <dreier at oxy.edu>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>> Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:02:22 -0700
>>>>> To:
>>>>> "Peter Dreier" <dreier at oxy.edu>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's HuffingtonPost carries my piece, "John Edwards - Organizer in
>>>>> Chief," about last night's Democratic debate and Edwards' understanding
>>>>> that grassroots organizing is critical to achieve real health care
>>>>> reform and other goals.
>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/john-edwards-organizer_b_66146.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> _____________________________________
>>>>> Peter Dreier
>>>>> Dr. E.P. Clapp Distinguished Professor of Politics
>>>>> Chair, Urban & Environmental Policy Program
>>>>> Occidental College
>>>>> 1600 Campus Road
>>>>> Los Angeles, CA 90041
>>>>> Phone: (323) 259-2913
>>>>> FAX: (323) 259-2734
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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