John Edwards and community organizing

Sat Oct 13 22:49:41 CDT 2007

[ed:  thanks to Adam for continuing the conversation.]

From: Adam Flint <flint at igc.org>

This is SO true, and not only in the U.S. Savvy movement leaders in the 
groups I work with in Latin America are often torn by this trade  off. 
If they devote resources and organizing energy to elections, even of one 
of their own, will it really acheive their goals more efficiently than 
devoting those resources to movement building? Particularly since, once 
in office, their candidates often are prisoners of systems and 
structures that mute the influence of the movement or the electorate.

I think here, where community and progressive organizing is weak and 
without any effective national expression (beyond single issues) many 
fool themselves into thinking that there will be some shorter-term 'bang 
for the buck' by electoral organizing rather than the hard clog of 
movement building. The religious right (RR) learned from their mistakes 
in that regard with Nixon AND Reagan, either of whom really cared much 
about their cores issues, and focused more on movement building until 
they had a golden opportunity  with GWB.   Unlike all the others, he 
appointed movement ideologs and loyalists throughout his cabinet and the 
federal bureacracy, and siphoned millions to the organizations of the 
religious right through his policy priorities.  A good thing for them, 
as by all accounts, including that of some of their most noted leaders, 
the R. R. was on life support by 2000.  They pretty much lost the 
'culture waes' (though in some parts of the U.S their rear guard actions 
are pretty convincing, and its only through 'effective fundraising' and 
their people in goverment that they continue to have a powerful effect 
on our lives.

Thanks for your preceptive intervention.

-Adam Flint

Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
> --------
> This is a COMM-ORG 'colist' message.
> All replies to this message come to COMM-ORG only.
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>  
> [ed:  thanks to Larry for continuing the discussion.]
>
> From:  Larry Yates <lamaryates at igc.org>
>
> I would suggest that Mr. Floyd and "Professor Dreier" are looking at two 
> different aspects of organizing reality. Or to put it differently (and 
> it's really against my nature to say this) they are both right, and it's 
> just a misunderstanding
>
> On the one hand, agreeding with Don Floyd, yes, we need to have 
> organized money (and organized research and organized legal structures 
> and organized technology) as well as organized people. Or to put it 
> differently, organized people need to put their hands to whatever tools 
> will help them do the job without distracting them from their goals. And 
> money is certainly a key tool that we ignore or fail to use effectively 
> at our peril.
>
> On the other hand, it seems to me Peter Dreier was just saying that the 
> fundamental fact of organizing is organized people vs. organized money 
> and privilege. Organized money and privilege tend to keep power 
> relations as they are (or more so), and organized people tend (we hope) 
> to make them more just and open.
>
> Perhaps some of the confusion comes from relating organizing and 
> political campaigns. To what real degree are Obama, Edwards, Kucinich or 
> Ron Paul, (selecting perhaps the most ideologically motivating 
> candidates( and those working with them, organizing? It seems to me that 
> 90% of what they do is focussed on building a short-term effort totally 
> dependent on the good behavior of one person, on influencing how the 
> media covers them, and on the accumulation and expenditure of lots of 
> money that is not accountable to any collective organized body.
>
> I guess I question whether the success or failure of major electoral 
> campaigns is all that dependent on anything we can really call 
> organizing, except at the last stage with GOTV (Get Out the Vote) work. 
> I also don't see campaigns as having any real interest in building any 
> lasting resources, which it seems to me is fundamental to organizing.
>
> I'm not trying to moralize. Just as we have to deal with money to 
> organize, we, at least as individuals, have to deal in one way or 
> another with political campaigns in order to have some influence over 
> our elected officials. I prefer elections to monarchy. But I think we 
> get rather easily confused between organizing and political campaigns, 
> and that there may be less overlap between the two than we tend to think.
>
> Larry Yates
> VOP Valley Organizer
> P.O. Box 245
> Maurertown VA 22644
> 540 436 3432
> llyates at shentel.net
> www.virginia-organizing.org
> Personal website: http://www.user.shentel.net/llyates/
>
>
> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>   
>> --------
>> This is a COMM-ORG 'colist' message.
>> All replies to this message come to COMM-ORG only.
>> --------
>>  
>> [ed:  Thanks to Don for raising these issues.  I would like to point us 
>> to the issues he raises for community organizing, and try to avoid 
>> having a candidate debate.  Is the rule both organized people and 
>> organized money?]
>>
>> From: "Don Floyd" <dfloyddekalb at earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>>  >From Dreier's piece:  "...it seems that only Edwards has absorbed the
>> cardinal rule of organizing: it requires organized people to beat organized
>> money."
>>
>> Don't know where this "cardinal rule" comes from.  When I was in the work,
>> the only "organizers" I knew who mouthed lines like that were the liberal
>> do-gooders, too afraid of power to build their own organized money.  Real
>> organizers build BOTH organized people AND organized money.
>>
>> Edwards has always seemed like one of those former organizers--often rich,
>> liberal white kids who want to play at being organizers, but end up losing
>> and screwing the folks because they can't stand the tension of building
>> real power.
>>
>> Professor Dreier ignores the fact that Obama is the only trained and
>> experienced community organizer in the field, and that he and his team are
>> organizing both people and money very well, much better than Edwards.
>>
>> Don Floyd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> --------
>>> This is a COMM-ORG 'colist' message.
>>> All replies to this message come to COMM-ORG only.
>>> --------
>>>  
>>> From:
>>> "Peter Dreier" <dreier at oxy.edu>
>>> Date:
>>> Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:02:22 -0700
>>> To:
>>> "Peter Dreier" <dreier at oxy.edu>
>>>
>>> Today's HuffingtonPost carries my piece, "John Edwards - Organizer in 
>>> Chief," about last night's Democratic debate and Edwards' understanding 
>>> that grassroots organizing is critical to achieve real health care 
>>> reform and other goals.
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/john-edwards-organizer_b_66146.html
>>>  
>>> Peter
>>> _____________________________________
>>> Peter Dreier
>>> Dr. E.P. Clapp Distinguished Professor of Politics
>>> Chair, Urban & Environmental Policy Program
>>> Occidental College
>>> 1600 Campus Road
>>> Los Angeles, CA 90041
>>> Phone: (323) 259-2913
>>> FAX: (323) 259-2734
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>