John Edwards and community organizing

Fri Oct 12 14:41:07 CDT 2007

[ed:  thanks to Larry for continuing the discussion.]

From:  Larry Yates <lamaryates at igc.org>

I would suggest that Mr. Floyd and "Professor Dreier" are looking at two 
different aspects of organizing reality. Or to put it differently (and 
it's really against my nature to say this) they are both right, and it's 
just a misunderstanding

On the one hand, agreeding with Don Floyd, yes, we need to have 
organized money (and organized research and organized legal structures 
and organized technology) as well as organized people. Or to put it 
differently, organized people need to put their hands to whatever tools 
will help them do the job without distracting them from their goals. And 
money is certainly a key tool that we ignore or fail to use effectively 
at our peril.

On the other hand, it seems to me Peter Dreier was just saying that the 
fundamental fact of organizing is organized people vs. organized money 
and privilege. Organized money and privilege tend to keep power 
relations as they are (or more so), and organized people tend (we hope) 
to make them more just and open.

Perhaps some of the confusion comes from relating organizing and 
political campaigns. To what real degree are Obama, Edwards, Kucinich or 
Ron Paul, (selecting perhaps the most ideologically motivating 
candidates( and those working with them, organizing? It seems to me that 
90% of what they do is focussed on building a short-term effort totally 
dependent on the good behavior of one person, on influencing how the 
media covers them, and on the accumulation and expenditure of lots of 
money that is not accountable to any collective organized body.

I guess I question whether the success or failure of major electoral 
campaigns is all that dependent on anything we can really call 
organizing, except at the last stage with GOTV (Get Out the Vote) work. 
I also don't see campaigns as having any real interest in building any 
lasting resources, which it seems to me is fundamental to organizing.

I'm not trying to moralize. Just as we have to deal with money to 
organize, we, at least as individuals, have to deal in one way or 
another with political campaigns in order to have some influence over 
our elected officials. I prefer elections to monarchy. But I think we 
get rather easily confused between organizing and political campaigns, 
and that there may be less overlap between the two than we tend to think.

Larry Yates
VOP Valley Organizer
P.O. Box 245
Maurertown VA 22644
540 436 3432
llyates at shentel.net
www.virginia-organizing.org
Personal website: http://www.user.shentel.net/llyates/

Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
> --------
> This is a COMM-ORG 'colist' message.
> All replies to this message come to COMM-ORG only.
> --------
>  
> [ed:  Thanks to Don for raising these issues.  I would like to point us 
> to the issues he raises for community organizing, and try to avoid 
> having a candidate debate.  Is the rule both organized people and 
> organized money?]
>
> From: "Don Floyd" <dfloyddekalb at earthlink.net>
>
>
>  >From Dreier's piece:  "...it seems that only Edwards has absorbed the
> cardinal rule of organizing: it requires organized people to beat organized
> money."
>
> Don't know where this "cardinal rule" comes from.  When I was in the work,
> the only "organizers" I knew who mouthed lines like that were the liberal
> do-gooders, too afraid of power to build their own organized money.  Real
> organizers build BOTH organized people AND organized money.
>
> Edwards has always seemed like one of those former organizers--often rich,
> liberal white kids who want to play at being organizers, but end up losing
> and screwing the folks because they can't stand the tension of building
> real power.
>
> Professor Dreier ignores the fact that Obama is the only trained and
> experienced community organizer in the field, and that he and his team are
> organizing both people and money very well, much better than Edwards.
>
> Don Floyd
>
>
>
>
> Discussion list for COMM-ORG wrote:
>   
>> --------
>> This is a COMM-ORG 'colist' message.
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>>  
>> From:
>> "Peter Dreier" <dreier at oxy.edu>
>> Date:
>> Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:02:22 -0700
>> To:
>> "Peter Dreier" <dreier at oxy.edu>
>>
>> Today's HuffingtonPost carries my piece, "John Edwards - Organizer in 
>> Chief," about last night's Democratic debate and Edwards' understanding 
>> that grassroots organizing is critical to achieve real health care 
>> reform and other goals.
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/john-edwards-organizer_b_66146.html
>>  
>> Peter
>> _____________________________________
>> Peter Dreier
>> Dr. E.P. Clapp Distinguished Professor of Politics
>> Chair, Urban & Environmental Policy Program
>> Occidental College
>> 1600 Campus Road
>> Los Angeles, CA 90041
>> Phone: (323) 259-2913
>> FAX: (323) 259-2734
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